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	<title>Comments on: A regional solution must include India</title>
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	<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2009/04/07/a-regional-solution-must-include-india/</link>
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		<title>By: bongatticus</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2009/04/07/a-regional-solution-must-include-india/comment-page-1/#comment-1837103</link>
		<dc:creator>bongatticus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 04:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/?p=1456#comment-1837103</guid>
		<description>First of all, the whole Jihadi problem is a legacy of US. Insurgency erupted in Kashmir only when your unemployed Mujahideens, the honourable cold war warriors, had nothing else to do after the end of soviet withdrawal of Afghanistan. So, US can hardly claim to be an interlocutor with clean hands.

Secondly, the kleptocratic Pakistani establishment of Army-ISI has always used hostility against to perpetuate its own privileges. So, the reality that lurks behind all the hyperbole about kashmir is that a negotiated settlement with India is more inimical to Pakistani establishment&#039;s interests. 

Thirdly, Pakistan has a long festering dispute about its border with Afghanistan as the latter does not recognize the Durand Line. In fact, the only country that had opposed Pakistan&#039;s entry into UN was Afghanistan. That is why, it is imperative for Pakistan to have a pliant regime in Kabul which will never raise the Durand Line issue. Use of Islamic fundamentalism and terror is thus, in the warped world view of the Pakistani Army, a necessity that will outlive the Kashmir dispute. 

and finally, the argument that Pakistan will not take steps against Islamic terror until Kashmir issue is resolved, is nothing short of brazen blackmail. I had always been in favour of peace-process with a democratic Pakistan. But dialogue cannot take place under the shadow of gun. If the Pakistani establishment thinks, it can blackmail the world into pressurizing India through terror, it is only paving the path for its own implosion. 

A plural, multicultural India for all its flaws, is a strong and resilient enough to survive odd terrorist attacks. But long before they can bleed India to death with thousand cuts, this Islamist fire will burn Pakistan to ashes. The process has already started. But alas, these criminals are still seen as &#039;strategic assets&#039; by the Pakistani army.

and if attacks cross a threshold and the Pakistani state keeps on encouraging one terror attack against India after another, India will give a fitting reply to these crooks in uniform. 

I cannot help but notice the parallel with 1971. As the Pakistani army unleashed a genocide in Bangladesh and India, (flooded with more than 10 million refugees) pleaded the international community to restrain Pakistan, U.S, UK, etc. all turned a blind eye (because of pakistan&#039;s role in the Nixon-China dialogue). Instead, India was asked to shut up. But international community&#039;s apathy and self-centered myopia finally led to a war and Independence of Bangladesh.

Before writing such ignorant trash , Mr. Vogt would have done better to learn a bit more of the sub-continent history. It would go a long way in building a &#039;Secure America&#039;. 

Appeasement of terror will only further embolden these zealots. Europe appeased one set of killers in 1930s and the world paid a ghastly price. Humankind can scarcely afford a repeat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, the whole Jihadi problem is a legacy of US. Insurgency erupted in Kashmir only when your unemployed Mujahideens, the honourable cold war warriors, had nothing else to do after the end of soviet withdrawal of Afghanistan. So, US can hardly claim to be an interlocutor with clean hands.</p>
<p>Secondly, the kleptocratic Pakistani establishment of Army-ISI has always used hostility against to perpetuate its own privileges. So, the reality that lurks behind all the hyperbole about kashmir is that a negotiated settlement with India is more inimical to Pakistani establishment&#8217;s interests. </p>
<p>Thirdly, Pakistan has a long festering dispute about its border with Afghanistan as the latter does not recognize the Durand Line. In fact, the only country that had opposed Pakistan&#8217;s entry into UN was Afghanistan. That is why, it is imperative for Pakistan to have a pliant regime in Kabul which will never raise the Durand Line issue. Use of Islamic fundamentalism and terror is thus, in the warped world view of the Pakistani Army, a necessity that will outlive the Kashmir dispute. </p>
<p>and finally, the argument that Pakistan will not take steps against Islamic terror until Kashmir issue is resolved, is nothing short of brazen blackmail. I had always been in favour of peace-process with a democratic Pakistan. But dialogue cannot take place under the shadow of gun. If the Pakistani establishment thinks, it can blackmail the world into pressurizing India through terror, it is only paving the path for its own implosion. </p>
<p>A plural, multicultural India for all its flaws, is a strong and resilient enough to survive odd terrorist attacks. But long before they can bleed India to death with thousand cuts, this Islamist fire will burn Pakistan to ashes. The process has already started. But alas, these criminals are still seen as &#8216;strategic assets&#8217; by the Pakistani army.</p>
<p>and if attacks cross a threshold and the Pakistani state keeps on encouraging one terror attack against India after another, India will give a fitting reply to these crooks in uniform. </p>
<p>I cannot help but notice the parallel with 1971. As the Pakistani army unleashed a genocide in Bangladesh and India, (flooded with more than 10 million refugees) pleaded the international community to restrain Pakistan, U.S, UK, etc. all turned a blind eye (because of pakistan&#8217;s role in the Nixon-China dialogue). Instead, India was asked to shut up. But international community&#8217;s apathy and self-centered myopia finally led to a war and Independence of Bangladesh.</p>
<p>Before writing such ignorant trash , Mr. Vogt would have done better to learn a bit more of the sub-continent history. It would go a long way in building a &#8216;Secure America&#8217;. </p>
<p>Appeasement of terror will only further embolden these zealots. Europe appeased one set of killers in 1930s and the world paid a ghastly price. Humankind can scarcely afford a repeat.</p>
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		<title>By: Churchill Fan</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2009/04/07/a-regional-solution-must-include-india/comment-page-1/#comment-1835441</link>
		<dc:creator>Churchill Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/?p=1456#comment-1835441</guid>
		<description>Churchill once said that &quot;You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they&#039;ve tried everything else.&quot; There is a fundamental civilizational conflict at work in Kashmir. India&#039;s view is that the world should be a multicultural, multireligious place with no special status for ANY faith regardless of whether it is Hinduism or Islam or whatever. Pakistan&#039;s worldview is that there need to be zones that are exclusively reserved where Islam is supreme. This is the core problem. This Islamist belief is at the core of why Pakistani intelligence supports the Taliban. India and Pakistan are not like Israel and the Arabs. Indians and Pakistanis are ethnically close-to-identical people, who speak the same languages, eat the same food, have the same reactions to the world at large. They are, in essence, one race split by two worldviews - but the split is so virulent that they will both deny they are the same to the death (and then secretly watch each other&#039;s movies and sing each other&#039;s songs and feel guilty about it). Lasting end of hostility in a situation like this can only happen when one worldview wins: Is Islam to be supreme or is the world to be a religiously relaxed place? The US can try to accelerate this, but it won&#039;t work. They could end-up making the Indians mad (which is bad because you will need them when China inevitably begins its move to drive the Americans out of Asia, and because it may drive the Indians closer to Shia Iran, which India views as VERY distinct and much more friendly compared to the rest of the Islamic world). And it will make Pakistan mad (because when the Indians don&#039;t listen to the US, as they will not, Pakistan will blame the US for being duplicitous and backstabbing it, as Pakistan always does). Most people know better than to set out to make peace between two hate-filled brothers. You will probably drive them further apart, and they will both hate you in the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Churchill once said that &#8220;You can always count on Americans to do the right thing &#8211; after they&#8217;ve tried everything else.&#8221; There is a fundamental civilizational conflict at work in Kashmir. India&#8217;s view is that the world should be a multicultural, multireligious place with no special status for ANY faith regardless of whether it is Hinduism or Islam or whatever. Pakistan&#8217;s worldview is that there need to be zones that are exclusively reserved where Islam is supreme. This is the core problem. This Islamist belief is at the core of why Pakistani intelligence supports the Taliban. India and Pakistan are not like Israel and the Arabs. Indians and Pakistanis are ethnically close-to-identical people, who speak the same languages, eat the same food, have the same reactions to the world at large. They are, in essence, one race split by two worldviews &#8211; but the split is so virulent that they will both deny they are the same to the death (and then secretly watch each other&#8217;s movies and sing each other&#8217;s songs and feel guilty about it). Lasting end of hostility in a situation like this can only happen when one worldview wins: Is Islam to be supreme or is the world to be a religiously relaxed place? The US can try to accelerate this, but it won&#8217;t work. They could end-up making the Indians mad (which is bad because you will need them when China inevitably begins its move to drive the Americans out of Asia, and because it may drive the Indians closer to Shia Iran, which India views as VERY distinct and much more friendly compared to the rest of the Islamic world). And it will make Pakistan mad (because when the Indians don&#8217;t listen to the US, as they will not, Pakistan will blame the US for being duplicitous and backstabbing it, as Pakistan always does). Most people know better than to set out to make peace between two hate-filled brothers. You will probably drive them further apart, and they will both hate you in the end.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Dey</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2009/04/07/a-regional-solution-must-include-india/comment-page-1/#comment-1835259</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Dey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/?p=1456#comment-1835259</guid>
		<description>Pakistan, whose name means &quot;land of the pure&quot;  was created out of a hatred of anything &quot;non-Islamic&quot; and therefore &quot;impure&quot;. This idea disregarded cultural differences among the Muslims themselves, which is the reason why Bangladesh broke free and became a Muslim country on its own in 1971. This also explains why the different ethnicities in present-day Pakistan feel threatened by the Punjabi identity, and is also the reason why different parts of Pakistan are now in open revolt. The idea of hatred as a cornerstone of existence also meant that a convenient enemy should be manufactured and sustained, and &quot;Hindu&quot; India became the target. Therefore, even if the Kashmir issue is solved, another reason to hate India will immediately be manufactured. This is also the reason why the Army has ruled Pakistan for most of its shaky history. It is therefore imperative that a democracy that works should be instituted amd maintained in Pakistan, even if at the cost of the so-called &quot;Islamic&quot; identity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pakistan, whose name means &#8220;land of the pure&#8221;  was created out of a hatred of anything &#8220;non-Islamic&#8221; and therefore &#8220;impure&#8221;. This idea disregarded cultural differences among the Muslims themselves, which is the reason why Bangladesh broke free and became a Muslim country on its own in 1971. This also explains why the different ethnicities in present-day Pakistan feel threatened by the Punjabi identity, and is also the reason why different parts of Pakistan are now in open revolt. The idea of hatred as a cornerstone of existence also meant that a convenient enemy should be manufactured and sustained, and &#8220;Hindu&#8221; India became the target. Therefore, even if the Kashmir issue is solved, another reason to hate India will immediately be manufactured. This is also the reason why the Army has ruled Pakistan for most of its shaky history. It is therefore imperative that a democracy that works should be instituted amd maintained in Pakistan, even if at the cost of the so-called &#8220;Islamic&#8221; identity.</p>
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		<title>By: RT</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2009/04/07/a-regional-solution-must-include-india/comment-page-1/#comment-1833851</link>
		<dc:creator>RT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 00:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/?p=1456#comment-1833851</guid>
		<description>Mr. Vogt,

Please explain to me how you can conclude that Pakistan&#039;s failures are one due ot a &quot;lack of attention&quot; when the very Obama administration has blamed Pakistan for the wrong kind of attention with the Taliban and Al Qaeda i.e the one where Pakistani spies are working with the terrorists that they are supposed to be fighting?

Please also explain to me where in your wonderful logic, you have factored in the steady and unrelenting Pakistani state support for jihadists murdering people in India, Kashmir and elsewhere, in an apparent attempt to bleed Indian forces? 

Do you even know what you are talking about?

If a serial killer says &quot;I&#039;ll stop killing if you can get my neighbor to send his wife to me&quot;, would you consider it a reasonable request?

Short of India ceasing to exist, Pakistan&#039;s paranoid Generals will keep sensing an existential threat from the Indians.

Should US policies to protect itself from terrorists revolve around this Pakistani paranoia?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Vogt,</p>
<p>Please explain to me how you can conclude that Pakistan&#8217;s failures are one due ot a &#8220;lack of attention&#8221; when the very Obama administration has blamed Pakistan for the wrong kind of attention with the Taliban and Al Qaeda i.e the one where Pakistani spies are working with the terrorists that they are supposed to be fighting?</p>
<p>Please also explain to me where in your wonderful logic, you have factored in the steady and unrelenting Pakistani state support for jihadists murdering people in India, Kashmir and elsewhere, in an apparent attempt to bleed Indian forces? </p>
<p>Do you even know what you are talking about?</p>
<p>If a serial killer says &#8220;I&#8217;ll stop killing if you can get my neighbor to send his wife to me&#8221;, would you consider it a reasonable request?</p>
<p>Short of India ceasing to exist, Pakistan&#8217;s paranoid Generals will keep sensing an existential threat from the Indians.</p>
<p>Should US policies to protect itself from terrorists revolve around this Pakistani paranoia?</p>
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		<title>By: Vish</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2009/04/07/a-regional-solution-must-include-india/comment-page-1/#comment-1833823</link>
		<dc:creator>Vish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 00:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/?p=1456#comment-1833823</guid>
		<description>BTW, how rich is it to put the cost of US fecklessness with Pakistan on India&#039;s door?

A terrorist sponsoring nation, Pakistan, blackmails the US and seeks to annex territory that it could not get through war nor through terror proxies. 

But it now says &quot;Gimme Kashmir or I&#039;ll keep sending Al Qaeda and Taliban into AFghanistan and beyond&quot;

The way to handle a blackmailing thug is to call his bluff and give him a choice between doing the right thing and going to jail.

What next? Pakistanis may say, give me $100B and nuclear submarines or we won&#039;t cooperate and the US just pays up like it did with AIG and the banks?

Indians are tired of Pakistan&#039;s terror raids, with the wounds from Mumbai still raw. We will never yield to threats.

Even as the Mumbai masterminds are enjoying Pakistani patronage, Obama wants India to &quot;talk&quot; to Pakistan.

How rich?

Hey Obama, why didn&#039;t you call for talks with Osama Bin Laden after 9/11? Maybe he too has genuine concerns that need to be addressed.

As I said, not one nanometer to Pakistan. Ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, how rich is it to put the cost of US fecklessness with Pakistan on India&#8217;s door?</p>
<p>A terrorist sponsoring nation, Pakistan, blackmails the US and seeks to annex territory that it could not get through war nor through terror proxies. </p>
<p>But it now says &#8220;Gimme Kashmir or I&#8217;ll keep sending Al Qaeda and Taliban into AFghanistan and beyond&#8221;</p>
<p>The way to handle a blackmailing thug is to call his bluff and give him a choice between doing the right thing and going to jail.</p>
<p>What next? Pakistanis may say, give me $100B and nuclear submarines or we won&#8217;t cooperate and the US just pays up like it did with AIG and the banks?</p>
<p>Indians are tired of Pakistan&#8217;s terror raids, with the wounds from Mumbai still raw. We will never yield to threats.</p>
<p>Even as the Mumbai masterminds are enjoying Pakistani patronage, Obama wants India to &#8220;talk&#8221; to Pakistan.</p>
<p>How rich?</p>
<p>Hey Obama, why didn&#8217;t you call for talks with Osama Bin Laden after 9/11? Maybe he too has genuine concerns that need to be addressed.</p>
<p>As I said, not one nanometer to Pakistan. Ever.</p>
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		<title>By: Vish</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2009/04/07/a-regional-solution-must-include-india/comment-page-1/#comment-1833810</link>
		<dc:creator>Vish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 23:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/?p=1456#comment-1833810</guid>
		<description>F**k you!

India will not concede one nanometer to Pakistan and any US pressure will end in permanent damage to US-India ties.

No sane US leader will risk permanently jeopardizing ties with a rising world power in order to accomodate a paranoid failing state.

Not one nanometer and go pound sand</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>F**k you!</p>
<p>India will not concede one nanometer to Pakistan and any US pressure will end in permanent damage to US-India ties.</p>
<p>No sane US leader will risk permanently jeopardizing ties with a rising world power in order to accomodate a paranoid failing state.</p>
<p>Not one nanometer and go pound sand</p>
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