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	<title>Comments on: The Clinton-Obama Exchange You Might Have Missed</title>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/comment-page-1/#comment-692021</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/#comment-692021</guid>
		<description>Julie...that&#039;s all we need. Another &quot;gorverning mandate.&quot;

Mark F...yeah, it&#039;s so refreshing they way Obama&#039;s campaign started working to define the Clinton administration and Hillary as &quot;devisive&quot;, from the start. And how reasonable and moderate are so many Obama supporters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julie&#8230;that&#8217;s all we need. Another &#8220;gorverning mandate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mark F&#8230;yeah, it&#8217;s so refreshing they way Obama&#8217;s campaign started working to define the Clinton administration and Hillary as &#8220;devisive&#8221;, from the start. And how reasonable and moderate are so many Obama supporters.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/comment-page-1/#comment-691689</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Cunningham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 00:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/#comment-691689</guid>
		<description>Wolfpack,

I think you&#039;ve got a few of your facts crooked.  First, how is it possible that someone is &quot;reading too much into her words&quot;?  It was a nationally televised live debate.  He said what he said.  She said what she said.  A few million interested parties watched and took from it what they chose to take from it.  But the argument that somone &quot;read too much into her words&quot; is just as silly as the argument that &quot;words don&#039;t matter.&quot;  She wanted a debate.  She got a debate.  She made her point.  Reasonable people will assess it accordingly.  I think this post makes an astute analysis of the most stark contrast between the two candidates.

Second, given the choice of &quot;common ground&quot; or &quot;scorched earth,&quot; the disctinction in what the candidates represent is clear.  Both of them talk about change.  Barack means changing the overall way of doing business in Washington, and actually having a government that solicits the input of and represents the American People.  Hillary has made it abundantly clear that she means moving away from the Bush Administration and their disasterous policies.  I support the latter, but the former means a great deal more, and it is obvious that one message is resonating with a wider swath of the population.

Third, I think you&#039;ve lost sight of why the health care battle of the early 90s turned out the way it did.  There are numerous individuals on all sides of that fight who have spoken out on the process, and the one point on which they all seem to sound the same note is the notion that Hillary thought the best method was to go behind closed doors with like-minded individuals, hash out a plan, and ram it down the throats of those who had even the slightest disagreement or other ways of achieving the goal.  She talks about experience, but she hasn&#039;t changed her tactic very much.  When Edwards was in the race, she was just as critical of his plan as she is of Obama&#039;s now.  It&#039;s as though she can&#039;t conceive of anyone having a good idea that she didn&#039;t think of first.  That&#039;s the Washington way, I guess, but it surely isn&#039;t productive.

Last, I think you missed the contradiction inherent between &quot;having very specific goals&quot; and &quot;starting with small steps.&quot;  Hillary&#039;s way of thinking about that is &quot;I set the very specific goals and you take small steps away from your position, toward mine.&quot;  That&#039;s just not the way negotiation works.  It&#039;s not the way compromise works.  It&#039;s not the way bipartisanship works.  In order to have a true working relationship with someone, you have to have a specific goal and I have to have a specific goal.  If our specific goals are not the same, we have to come together in understanding that, and in establishing a willingness to know what each other&#039;s goals are, and why/how we arrived at those goals.  We also need to figure out where our interests coincide and where they diverge.  When we figure out where they coincide, that&#039;s when we take the small steps.  Once we arrive at a compromise (the place where our shared interests lie), then we both need to reassess how tied we are to where we originally were.  In other words, we let the circumstances at the time and the results of our approach dictate our course of action, rather than our preconceived notions of &quot;the ONE RIGHT WAY&quot; to solve a particular problem.

Remember, as Junior Johnson once said, if you sit down to a breakfast of eggs and bacon, the chicken is dedicated, but the pig is committed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wolfpack,</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;ve got a few of your facts crooked.  First, how is it possible that someone is &#8220;reading too much into her words&#8221;?  It was a nationally televised live debate.  He said what he said.  She said what she said.  A few million interested parties watched and took from it what they chose to take from it.  But the argument that somone &#8220;read too much into her words&#8221; is just as silly as the argument that &#8220;words don&#8217;t matter.&#8221;  She wanted a debate.  She got a debate.  She made her point.  Reasonable people will assess it accordingly.  I think this post makes an astute analysis of the most stark contrast between the two candidates.</p>
<p>Second, given the choice of &#8220;common ground&#8221; or &#8220;scorched earth,&#8221; the disctinction in what the candidates represent is clear.  Both of them talk about change.  Barack means changing the overall way of doing business in Washington, and actually having a government that solicits the input of and represents the American People.  Hillary has made it abundantly clear that she means moving away from the Bush Administration and their disasterous policies.  I support the latter, but the former means a great deal more, and it is obvious that one message is resonating with a wider swath of the population.</p>
<p>Third, I think you&#8217;ve lost sight of why the health care battle of the early 90s turned out the way it did.  There are numerous individuals on all sides of that fight who have spoken out on the process, and the one point on which they all seem to sound the same note is the notion that Hillary thought the best method was to go behind closed doors with like-minded individuals, hash out a plan, and ram it down the throats of those who had even the slightest disagreement or other ways of achieving the goal.  She talks about experience, but she hasn&#8217;t changed her tactic very much.  When Edwards was in the race, she was just as critical of his plan as she is of Obama&#8217;s now.  It&#8217;s as though she can&#8217;t conceive of anyone having a good idea that she didn&#8217;t think of first.  That&#8217;s the Washington way, I guess, but it surely isn&#8217;t productive.</p>
<p>Last, I think you missed the contradiction inherent between &#8220;having very specific goals&#8221; and &#8220;starting with small steps.&#8221;  Hillary&#8217;s way of thinking about that is &#8220;I set the very specific goals and you take small steps away from your position, toward mine.&#8221;  That&#8217;s just not the way negotiation works.  It&#8217;s not the way compromise works.  It&#8217;s not the way bipartisanship works.  In order to have a true working relationship with someone, you have to have a specific goal and I have to have a specific goal.  If our specific goals are not the same, we have to come together in understanding that, and in establishing a willingness to know what each other&#8217;s goals are, and why/how we arrived at those goals.  We also need to figure out where our interests coincide and where they diverge.  When we figure out where they coincide, that&#8217;s when we take the small steps.  Once we arrive at a compromise (the place where our shared interests lie), then we both need to reassess how tied we are to where we originally were.  In other words, we let the circumstances at the time and the results of our approach dictate our course of action, rather than our preconceived notions of &#8220;the ONE RIGHT WAY&#8221; to solve a particular problem.</p>
<p>Remember, as Junior Johnson once said, if you sit down to a breakfast of eggs and bacon, the chicken is dedicated, but the pig is committed.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregwardo</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/comment-page-1/#comment-691650</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregwardo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/#comment-691650</guid>
		<description>Mark F - you are absolutely right.  One crystal clear example of this difference is the speeches given by Clinton and Obama on the evening of Super Tuesday.  

Clinton  - &quot;I am the one ready to FIGHT Republicans&quot;
Obama - &quot;Let&#039;s work together to make the country better&quot;

THAT&#039;S why he&#039;s going to win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark F &#8211; you are absolutely right.  One crystal clear example of this difference is the speeches given by Clinton and Obama on the evening of Super Tuesday.  </p>
<p>Clinton  &#8211; &#8220;I am the one ready to FIGHT Republicans&#8221;<br />
Obama &#8211; &#8220;Let&#8217;s work together to make the country better&#8221;</p>
<p>THAT&#8217;S why he&#8217;s going to win.</p>
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		<title>By: julie</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/comment-page-1/#comment-691645</link>
		<dc:creator>julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/#comment-691645</guid>
		<description>Great post.  You know, I think that Hillary supporters unfairly characterize Barack Obama&#039;s philosophy of &quot;reaching out&quot; as meaning that he will &quot;cave&quot; to the Republicans.  I do not believe this to be the case.  Rather, I believe that Hillary, who has positioned herself as a &quot;fighter,&quot; will be so combative toward all Republicans, and even the Democrats who disagree with her, that she will find it impossible to get anything done.  

Example:  she&#039;s taken to calling her health-insurance proposal a &quot;core Democratic value.&quot;  Oh, really?  I was unaware that a plank of the Democratic Party was the idea that all citizens must be forced to purchase private health insurance or else have their wages garnished.  

Conversely, I think that Barack Obama has shown that he will not be baited into lashing out against people who disagree with him.  He is a consensus-builder, and Democrats in red and purple states believe that an Obama candidacy would have huge coattails in their states.  He has the ability to usher in a true &quot;governing mandate&quot; in November.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  You know, I think that Hillary supporters unfairly characterize Barack Obama&#8217;s philosophy of &#8220;reaching out&#8221; as meaning that he will &#8220;cave&#8221; to the Republicans.  I do not believe this to be the case.  Rather, I believe that Hillary, who has positioned herself as a &#8220;fighter,&#8221; will be so combative toward all Republicans, and even the Democrats who disagree with her, that she will find it impossible to get anything done.  </p>
<p>Example:  she&#8217;s taken to calling her health-insurance proposal a &#8220;core Democratic value.&#8221;  Oh, really?  I was unaware that a plank of the Democratic Party was the idea that all citizens must be forced to purchase private health insurance or else have their wages garnished.  </p>
<p>Conversely, I think that Barack Obama has shown that he will not be baited into lashing out against people who disagree with him.  He is a consensus-builder, and Democrats in red and purple states believe that an Obama candidacy would have huge coattails in their states.  He has the ability to usher in a true &#8220;governing mandate&#8221; in November.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfpack SigO</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/comment-page-1/#comment-691587</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfpack SigO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/#comment-691587</guid>
		<description>Matt, you’re reading too much into her words.  Can we achieve universal care with no financial sacrifice or reduction in quality for some? This question is what makes the discussion of the health care issue in the US so difficult, and the process of providing or mandating universal health coverage is not one I would recommend as a starting point for bringing everyone together. 

Senator Clinton’s reference to overcoming opposition is a reminder of the heat she took in 1993 with her health care proposal.  Those who opposed her and so-called socialized medicine still oppose universal coverage and will fight the concept to the end.   

She’s right.  It’s not enough to say “Let’s come together,” because the adage is true, that if you aim at nothing you will surely hit it.  So in the quest to rebuild trust, we start with small steps, and Clinton says as much when she advocates seeking “very specific goals,” finding some common ground on an admittedly very hot issue, and moving forward from there. 

Although I can’t agree with Jeff in Illinois that Democrats need to take revenge on the Republicans, he correctly cites Senator Clinton’s proven ability to work with the other party to get things done, which defines bipartisanship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, you’re reading too much into her words.  Can we achieve universal care with no financial sacrifice or reduction in quality for some? This question is what makes the discussion of the health care issue in the US so difficult, and the process of providing or mandating universal health coverage is not one I would recommend as a starting point for bringing everyone together. </p>
<p>Senator Clinton’s reference to overcoming opposition is a reminder of the heat she took in 1993 with her health care proposal.  Those who opposed her and so-called socialized medicine still oppose universal coverage and will fight the concept to the end.   </p>
<p>She’s right.  It’s not enough to say “Let’s come together,” because the adage is true, that if you aim at nothing you will surely hit it.  So in the quest to rebuild trust, we start with small steps, and Clinton says as much when she advocates seeking “very specific goals,” finding some common ground on an admittedly very hot issue, and moving forward from there. </p>
<p>Although I can’t agree with Jeff in Illinois that Democrats need to take revenge on the Republicans, he correctly cites Senator Clinton’s proven ability to work with the other party to get things done, which defines bipartisanship.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark F</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/comment-page-1/#comment-691559</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/#comment-691559</guid>
		<description>Hillary&#039;s entire campaign has been built around the idea of division and fighting.  She&#039;s the &quot;battle tested&quot; candidate who&#039;s covered with &quot;scars&quot; and is ready to &quot;take on the Republicans&quot;.  She simply does not get it.  This country has had enough of this horseshit.  She just doesn&#039;t understand America in the year 2008.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hillary&#8217;s entire campaign has been built around the idea of division and fighting.  She&#8217;s the &#8220;battle tested&#8221; candidate who&#8217;s covered with &#8220;scars&#8221; and is ready to &#8220;take on the Republicans&#8221;.  She simply does not get it.  This country has had enough of this horseshit.  She just doesn&#8217;t understand America in the year 2008.</p>
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		<title>By: Salty1</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/comment-page-1/#comment-691430</link>
		<dc:creator>Salty1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/#comment-691430</guid>
		<description>This is an analysis that has been there for many of us to see for many months and in large part explains my decision to support Sen. Obama after concluding that both candidates&#039; policy positions were &quot;in the ball park&quot;.  (Yes Obama has policy positions - the &quot;no substance&quot; critique is one that caters only to the stupidest of the electorate... if anything, the only empty suit is John McCain ... try tracking down where John McCain stands on global warming or rural development or any number of issues other than taxes and war... there is no policy there other than vague platitudes). 

The difference between the Dem candidates is remarkable - a difference of executive vision.  Change for Clinton means, getting a Democrat in the White House with a Dem-controlled Congress to exact a partisan revenge on an overly partisan GOP.  Jeff in Illinois clearly is of the mind that the blood fued must go on.  No, it must stop.  It is time to heal and listen and compromise.   The pace of political progress has been terribly slow under the partisan warfare model that emerged 25 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an analysis that has been there for many of us to see for many months and in large part explains my decision to support Sen. Obama after concluding that both candidates&#8217; policy positions were &#8220;in the ball park&#8221;.  (Yes Obama has policy positions &#8211; the &#8220;no substance&#8221; critique is one that caters only to the stupidest of the electorate&#8230; if anything, the only empty suit is John McCain &#8230; try tracking down where John McCain stands on global warming or rural development or any number of issues other than taxes and war&#8230; there is no policy there other than vague platitudes). </p>
<p>The difference between the Dem candidates is remarkable &#8211; a difference of executive vision.  Change for Clinton means, getting a Democrat in the White House with a Dem-controlled Congress to exact a partisan revenge on an overly partisan GOP.  Jeff in Illinois clearly is of the mind that the blood fued must go on.  No, it must stop.  It is time to heal and listen and compromise.   The pace of political progress has been terribly slow under the partisan warfare model that emerged 25 years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff in Illinois</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/comment-page-1/#comment-691334</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff in Illinois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/#comment-691334</guid>
		<description>It is important for Americans to look at the positions of the two candidates at the in depth level posed. It is also important to point out that Hillary Clinton has been a Senator under a Republican majority. Most Americans don&#039;t understand that the majority party controls the adjenda; what is discussed/debated; what comes to a vote on the floor. Senator Clinton has obviously had to work well with many Republicans to get anything accomplished. Our system was designed this way. 
Americans must remember that no matter how much you attempt to work with Republicans, they are not going to change their mind on stem cell research, they will not change their mind that the free market is the cure all for all that troubles our nation, that oversight is somehow big governement, that tax cuts need to reward the wealthy, and the list goes on. When the Republican members of the house walked out of the chamber last week, it is clear, they will not work with anyone who doesn&#039;t share their position--staunchly. Not nuance, not grey area. They shut off microphones during hearings. Republicans approach governing from a &quot;my way or the highway&quot; attitude.  They demonize any Republican who does work with Democrats. (Senator Mc Cain). It is time we had a candidate that aggressively persues Democratic core values. We&#039;ve lost in 2000 and 2004, we can&#039;t afford that again. There is a difference between wanting change (Obama) and needing change (Hillary). It is time Democrats went for some blood and make the Republicans pay for what they&#039;ve done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is important for Americans to look at the positions of the two candidates at the in depth level posed. It is also important to point out that Hillary Clinton has been a Senator under a Republican majority. Most Americans don&#8217;t understand that the majority party controls the adjenda; what is discussed/debated; what comes to a vote on the floor. Senator Clinton has obviously had to work well with many Republicans to get anything accomplished. Our system was designed this way.<br />
Americans must remember that no matter how much you attempt to work with Republicans, they are not going to change their mind on stem cell research, they will not change their mind that the free market is the cure all for all that troubles our nation, that oversight is somehow big governement, that tax cuts need to reward the wealthy, and the list goes on. When the Republican members of the house walked out of the chamber last week, it is clear, they will not work with anyone who doesn&#8217;t share their position&#8211;staunchly. Not nuance, not grey area. They shut off microphones during hearings. Republicans approach governing from a &#8220;my way or the highway&#8221; attitude.  They demonize any Republican who does work with Democrats. (Senator Mc Cain). It is time we had a candidate that aggressively persues Democratic core values. We&#8217;ve lost in 2000 and 2004, we can&#8217;t afford that again. There is a difference between wanting change (Obama) and needing change (Hillary). It is time Democrats went for some blood and make the Republicans pay for what they&#8217;ve done.</p>
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		<title>By: Presidential election 2008 &#124;Republicans Vs. Democrats &#187; The Clinton-Obama Exchange You Might Have Missed</title>
		<link>http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/comment-page-1/#comment-691304</link>
		<dc:creator>Presidential election 2008 &#124;Republicans Vs. Democrats &#187; The Clinton-Obama Exchange You Might Have Missed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/#comment-691304</guid>
		<description>[...] Kyle E. Moore wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptHere, omitting about three minutes of back-and-forth on the Deval Patrick “plagiarism” issue, is Hillary’s response:. Now, there is no doubt that you are a passionate, eloquent speaker, and I applaud you for that. &#8230;   Read the rest of this great post here    Posted by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Kyle E. Moore wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptHere, omitting about three minutes of back-and-forth on the Deval Patrick “plagiarism” issue, is Hillary’s response:. Now, there is no doubt that you are a passionate, eloquent speaker, and I applaud you for that. &#8230;   Read the rest of this great post here    Posted by [...]</p>
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